From valj01 at gel.usherb.ca Tue Apr 3 00:52:50 2001 From: valj01 at gel.usherb.ca (Jean-Marc Valin) Date: Fri Feb 10 19:39:16 2006 Subject: [Pipet Users] Overflow node documentation Message-ID: <3AC95722.2BD3D456@gel.usherb.ca> Hi pipers, This is for all of you who complained (or were about to complain) about the lack of documentation about all the nodes available in Overflow. At last, here is some doc about that, which is automatically generated from the comments in the node implementation (the same way the .def files are generated). It is not complete yet, but the most important nodes are documented. Here's the web page: http://freespeech.sourceforge.net/FreeSpeech/html/Overflow/nodes.html Also, the main documentation page (http://freespeech.sourceforge.net/FreeSpeech/html/Overflow/doc.html) has been updated with information about the Overflow internals and info about how you can create your own Overflow nodes. Enjoy, Jean-Marc -- Jean-Marc Valin Universite de Sherbrooke - Genie Electrique valj01@gel.usherb.ca From jarl at xs4all.nl Tue Apr 17 06:39:14 2001 From: jarl at xs4all.nl (Jarl van Katwijk) Date: Fri Feb 10 19:39:16 2006 Subject: [Pipet Users] Piper Message-ID: <3ADC1D52.1DBC8C84@xs4all.nl> Hi all, I noticed this (new) project on freshmeat: http://freshmeat.net/projects/piper/ maybe we meed to contact the autor. jarl From Nicolas.Chauvat at logilab.fr Tue Apr 17 09:08:09 2001 From: Nicolas.Chauvat at logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Fri Feb 10 19:39:16 2006 Subject: [Pipet Users] Piper In-Reply-To: <3ADC1D52.1DBC8C84@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: > Hi all, > > I noticed this (new) project on freshmeat: > http://freshmeat.net/projects/piper/ maybe we meed to contact the > autor. Yep. Who is going to him? -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais o? est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From jeff at bioinformatics.org Tue Apr 17 12:34:49 2001 From: jeff at bioinformatics.org (J.W. Bizzaro) Date: Fri Feb 10 19:39:16 2006 Subject: [Pipet Users] Pipers Message-ID: <3ADC70A9.15808BE6@bioinformatics.org> Hi Erik. I'm the project coordinator for "Piper", but not your Piper :-) We noticed your announcement on Freshmeat of about a week ago, and it appears that we have chosen the same name. Our Piper is a merger between several GNU-licensed projects, and our goal is to build a peer-to-peer distributed workflow system, bringing features (e.g., piping) of the GNU/UNIX command-line interface (CLI) to the graphical user interface (GUI) and Internet-distributed computing. Here is our website: http://bioinformatics.org/piper We're not about to sue anyone, because we too are a Free Software project :-) But, for the sake of not confusing users, we should do something about it. Our Piper started early spring of 2000, and we have 4 primary developers and 60+ people on the main mailing list. Cheers. Jeff -- J.W. Bizzaro jeff@bioinformatics.org Director, Bioinformatics.org http://bioinformatics.org/~jeff "As we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and this we should do freely and generously." -- Benjamin Franklin -- From jeff at bioinformatics.org Tue Apr 17 12:45:47 2001 From: jeff at bioinformatics.org (J.W. Bizzaro) Date: Fri Feb 10 19:39:17 2006 Subject: [Pipet Users] Re: Pipers References: <3ADC70A9.15808BE6@bioinformatics.org> Message-ID: <3ADC733B.556133A6@bioinformatics.org> "J.W. Bizzaro" wrote: > > Our Piper started early spring of 2000, and we have 4 primary developers and > 60+ people on the main mailing list. I know that we don't have a high version number, but that's because a lot of our efforts have been toward merging the original projects, and we don't want to make announcements until everything is working well. This is also why we lost the opportunity to announce our project on Freshmeat and SourceForge. Cheers. Jeff -- J.W. Bizzaro jeff@bioinformatics.org Director, Bioinformatics.org http://bioinformatics.org/~jeff "As we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and this we should do freely and generously." -- Benjamin Franklin -- From jmvalin at locusdialogue.com Tue Apr 17 13:38:00 2001 From: jmvalin at locusdialogue.com (Jean-Marc Valin) Date: Fri Feb 10 19:39:17 2006 Subject: [Pipet Users] Pipers References: <3ADC70A9.15808BE6@bioinformatics.org> Message-ID: <3ADC7F78.223218F6@locusdialogue.com> "J.W. Bizzaro" a ?crit : > > Hi Erik. > > I'm the project coordinator for "Piper", but not your Piper :-) We noticed > your announcement on Freshmeat of about a week ago, and it appears that we > have chosen the same name. Our Piper is a merger between several GNU-licensed > projects, and our goal is to build a peer-to-peer distributed workflow system, > bringing features (e.g., piping) of the GNU/UNIX command-line interface (CLI) > to the graphical user interface (GUI) and Internet-distributed computing. Really, I don't see much problem with two projects being called Piper... and no reason for either of the two projects to change its name... just my $.02... Jean-Marc From jeff at bioinformatics.org Tue Apr 17 14:01:38 2001 From: jeff at bioinformatics.org (J.W. Bizzaro) Date: Fri Feb 10 19:39:17 2006 Subject: [Pipet Users] Pipers References: <3ADC70A9.15808BE6@bioinformatics.org> <3ADC7F78.223218F6@locusdialogue.com> Message-ID: <3ADC8502.157EF555@bioinformatics.org> Jean-Marc Valin wrote: > > Really, I don't see much problem with two projects being called Piper... > and no reason for either of the two projects to change its name... just > my $.02... Except that Freshmeat won't allow us to announce our project as "Piper", since that name has already been used. *sigh* Anyway, others here might want to note that the same thing happened at SourceForge.net, although that "Piper" is yet another project: http://sourceforge.net/projects/piper It makes me wonder if we should use the name "GNU Piper" instead. Cheers. Jeff From jmvalin at locusdialogue.com Tue Apr 17 16:30:55 2001 From: jmvalin at locusdialogue.com (Jean-Marc Valin) Date: Fri Feb 10 19:39:17 2006 Subject: [Pipet Users] Pipers References: <3ADC70A9.15808BE6@bioinformatics.org> <3ADC7F78.223218F6@locusdialogue.com> <3ADC8502.157EF555@bioinformatics.org> Message-ID: <3ADCA7FF.C9586726@locusdialogue.com> "J.W. Bizzaro" a ?crit : > It makes me wonder if we should use the name "GNU Piper" instead. That would mean that Piper would have to be part of the GNU project, otherwise it would be misleading. Either we stick to Piper (and enter it as "piperproject" or something like that on freespeech/sourceforge) or we find a different name. BTW, "GNU Piper" would be as confusing as "Piper", because nobody notices the "GNU" anymore... Jean-Marc From ahosey at kiva.net Tue Apr 17 16:32:18 2001 From: ahosey at kiva.net (Adrian Hosey) Date: Fri Feb 10 19:39:17 2006 Subject: [Pipet Users] Pipers In-Reply-To: <3ADCA7FF.C9586726@locusdialogue.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Apr 2001, Jean-Marc Valin wrote: : "J.W. Bizzaro" a ?crit : : > It makes me wonder if we should use the name "GNU Piper" instead. : : That would mean that Piper would have to be part of the GNU project, : otherwise it would be misleading. Either we stick to Piper (and enter it : as "piperproject" or something like that on freespeech/sourceforge) or : we find a different name. BTW, "GNU Piper" would be as confusing as : "Piper", because nobody notices the "GNU" anymore... Has the other fellow already declined to rename his project? There's nothing inherently wrong with having two projects with the same common name, but it is to his advantage to have a distinct name as much as it is to (this) Piper project. If he's willing to do that then it's all good. - A From jeff at bioinformatics.org Tue Apr 17 16:36:51 2001 From: jeff at bioinformatics.org (J.W. Bizzaro) Date: Fri Feb 10 19:39:17 2006 Subject: [Pipet Users] Pipers References: <3ADC70A9.15808BE6@bioinformatics.org> <3ADC7F78.223218F6@locusdialogue.com> <3ADC8502.157EF555@bioinformatics.org> <3ADCA7FF.C9586726@locusdialogue.com> Message-ID: <3ADCA963.6FA037@bioinformatics.org> Jean-Marc Valin wrote: > > That would mean that Piper would have to be part of the GNU project, We were considering that for Loci, and I'd like to do it for Piper. It's not hard to do. > otherwise it would be misleading. Either we stick to Piper (and enter it > as "piperproject" or something like that on freespeech/sourceforge) or > we find a different name. Dropping the name "Piper"? I would consider that more drastic than anything else. > BTW, "GNU Piper" would be as confusing as > "Piper", because nobody notices the "GNU" anymore... Perhaps. Cheers. Jeff From emeusel at mail.CS.Uni-Magdeburg.De Tue Apr 17 17:07:28 2001 From: emeusel at mail.CS.Uni-Magdeburg.De (Erik Meusel) Date: Fri Feb 10 19:39:17 2006 Subject: [Pipet Users] Re: Pipers In-Reply-To: <3ADC70A9.15808BE6@bioinformatics.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Apr 2001, J.W. Bizzaro wrote: > I'm the project coordinator for "Piper", but not your Piper :-) Well. When I wrote my "piper" I looked around using various search engines to figure out, if something like "piper" would exist anywhere. I didn't find anything. I saw what you did and it is your right to mention that you named your software "piper" somewhat earlier. And I would say ok, I will change the name of my tool, of course. But there are a lot of people who found my "piper" using freshmeat and they know the name now. If you think it's ok, I would like to make a suggestion. Why not have benefits out of this funny situation? I would make a link to your "piper" on my homepage with a comment like this: "there is also a professional workflow-system available with the name 'piper' you can find it " or similar. And you put a "there is also a small command line tool available named 'piper' and you can find it ". Just think about it. If you don't agree, I think I would rename my "piper". But please think about it. Regards, Erik From jeff at bioinformatics.org Tue Apr 17 18:36:06 2001 From: jeff at bioinformatics.org (J.W. Bizzaro) Date: Fri Feb 10 19:39:17 2006 Subject: [Pipet Users] Re: Pipers References: Message-ID: <3ADCC556.638B9653@bioinformatics.org> Hi Erik. Erik Meusel wrote: > > Well. When I wrote my "piper" I looked around using various search engines > to figure out, if something like "piper" would exist anywhere. I didn't > find anything. We're listed in the Linux Software Encyclopedia: http://stommel.tamu.edu/~baum/linuxlist/linuxlist/node37.html Also on Linux Weekly News: http://lwn.net/2000/0928/devel.php3 Gnome Gnotices: http://news.gnome.org/gnome-news/969680451/index_html O'Reilly P2P website: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/d/454 SunWorld Online: http://www.sunworld.com/sunworldonline/swol-09-2000/f_swol-0915-regex.html And some other online magazines/forums: http://www.infolets.com/970539595/ http://www.digito.pt/tecnologia/artigos/tecart73.html http://www.hispamp3.com/noticias/0102/010205_5.shtml Unfortunately, we didn't want to post on Freshmeat and SourceForge until the system was working. Freshmeat, in particular, attracts users who want functional software. Having done searches you may have come across the "Piper" that someone else registered at SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/piper We tried contacting him as well but got no response. > I saw what you did and it is your right to mention that you named your > software "piper" somewhat earlier. And I would say ok, I will change the > name of my tool, of course. But there are a lot of people who found my > "piper" using freshmeat and they know the name now. We're not trying to twist your arm about this. Some of the developers on our team think that this is not a big issue. But, it would be better to not have this confusion in the first place. > If you think it's ok, I would like to make a suggestion. Why not have > benefits out of this funny situation? I would make a link to your "piper" > on my homepage with a comment like this: "there is also a professional > workflow-system available with the name 'piper' you can find it " or > similar. And you put a "there is also a small command line tool available > named 'piper' and you can find it ". We're not in a big rush, so we can do that for now. In the long run, though, wouldn't it be better to not have the exact same names? And, our "Piper" has already been through several name changes, including those made to sub-projects because some company objected. May I make some suggestions? Based on your project's description, I think that the following names would work: Hydrometer Rheometer Tachometer Pipe Meter Pipe Gauge Flow Meter But, if you choose to keep the name, there is nothing that we can do. We just thought it would be nice of you. Cheers. Jeff From emeusel at mail.CS.Uni-Magdeburg.De Tue Apr 17 19:04:13 2001 From: emeusel at mail.CS.Uni-Magdeburg.De (Erik Meusel) Date: Fri Feb 10 19:39:17 2006 Subject: [Pipet Users] Re: Pipers In-Reply-To: <3ADCC556.638B9653@bioinformatics.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Apr 2001, J.W. Bizzaro wrote: > We're listed in the Linux Software Encyclopedia: > [...snip...] > > Having done searches you may have come across the "Piper" that someone else > registered at SourceForge: No, I haven't. > We're not in a big rush, so we can do that for now. In the long run, > though, wouldn't it be better to not have the exact same names? And, our > "Piper" has already been through several name changes, including those made > to sub-projects because some company objected. The idea was not an idea "for now". I will rename it. Regards, Erik From jeff at bioinformatics.org Tue Apr 17 19:52:56 2001 From: jeff at bioinformatics.org (J.W. Bizzaro) Date: Fri Feb 10 19:39:17 2006 Subject: [Pipet Users] Re: Pipers References: Message-ID: <3ADCD758.4C050899@bioinformatics.org> Erik Meusel wrote: > > The idea was not an idea "for now". I will rename it. Thanks, we really appreciate it. I know we sound like a bunch of sphincters pestering you like this (well, at least *I* seem like one), but we're really not that bad :-) Cheers. Jeff From jarl at xs4all.nl Wed Apr 18 08:34:54 2001 From: jarl at xs4all.nl (Jarl van Katwijk) Date: Fri Feb 10 19:39:17 2006 Subject: [Pipet Users] Re: Pipers References: <3ADCC556.638B9653@bioinformatics.org> Message-ID: <3ADD89EE.DC76EDA3@xs4all.nl> Hi, I'm very glad about Erik's decision to change his projects name. We should learn from this little situation and think about how we could present\promote Piper some more.. if we appear in more search engines and occupy more accounts on mayor open source sites this wouldn't have happened in the 1st place. I will try to subscribe Piper on freshmeat this weekend once Erik has renamed his project. jarl From jeff at bioinformatics.org Wed Apr 18 09:04:11 2001 From: jeff at bioinformatics.org (J.W. Bizzaro) Date: Fri Feb 10 19:39:17 2006 Subject: [Pipet Users] Re: Pipers References: <3ADCC556.638B9653@bioinformatics.org> <3ADD89EE.DC76EDA3@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <3ADD90CB.88DE3637@bioinformatics.org> Jarl van Katwijk wrote: > > We should learn from this little situation and think about how we could > present\promote Piper some more.. if we appear in more search engines > and occupy more accounts on mayor open source sites this wouldn't have > happened in the 1st place. Right, but we decided not to make any major announcements about Piper until the pilot was ready. Posting anything on Freshmeat is making a major announcement, and most people there would expect to find post-alpha code. But, I think that this has taught us that it is worse to have someone else take your name. Cheers. Jeff -- J.W. Bizzaro jeff@bioinformatics.org Director, Bioinformatics.org http://bioinformatics.org/~jeff "As we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and this we should do freely and generously." -- Benjamin Franklin -- From Alexandre.Fayolle at logilab.fr Wed Apr 18 12:43:24 2001 From: Alexandre.Fayolle at logilab.fr (Alexandre Fayolle) Date: Fri Feb 10 19:39:17 2006 Subject: [Pipet Users] Re: Pipers In-Reply-To: <3ADD90CB.88DE3637@bioinformatics.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, J.W. Bizzaro wrote: > Right, but we decided not to make any major announcements about Piper until > the pilot was ready. Posting anything on Freshmeat is making a major > announcement, and most people there would expect to find post-alpha code. > But, I think that this has taught us that it is worse to have someone else > take your name. Well, you can mention the maturity of the code when you release on FM. Setting it as alpha or less, with a very low revision number would make things clear, I think. Alexandre Fayolle -- http://www.logilab.com Narval is the first software agent available as free software (GPL). LOGILAB, Paris (France). From valj01 at gel.usherb.ca Fri Apr 20 00:47:24 2001 From: valj01 at gel.usherb.ca (Jean-Marc Valin) Date: Fri Feb 10 19:39:17 2006 Subject: [Pipet Users] Overflow 0.4.1 released Message-ID: <3ADFBF5C.BD7E1363@gel.usherb.ca> Hello to all Overflow (Piper PL) fans! Just to let you know that version 0.4.1 has been released. It's mostly a bugfix release, and it should be more stable than 0.4.0. One new (experimental) feature is the ability to have multiple threads in an Overflow program. This is done using the new "SerialThread", "ParallelThread" and "ThreadJoin" nodes, as illustrated in examples/mixedthread.n Have fun! Jean-Marc -- Jean-Marc Valin Universite de Sherbrooke - Genie Electrique valj01@gel.usherb.ca From jeff at bioinformatics.org Thu Apr 26 01:26:23 2001 From: jeff at bioinformatics.org (J.W. Bizzaro) Date: Fri Feb 10 19:39:17 2006 Subject: [Pipet Users] JXTA Message-ID: <3AE7B17F.30567A85@bioinformatics.org> ``And we outlined a vision for the software. Some key components are: 1.promote communication (not isolation) among applications 2.develop administrative commands for peers, peer groups, and groups of peers in the spirit of UNIX pipes and shells 3.keep the core small and elegant: make an architectural distinction between core mechanisms and optional policies 4.support multiple platforms and languages, micro devices to servers 5.address security from the beginning.'' http://www.jxta.org/ From jeff at bioinformatics.org Thu Apr 26 01:54:42 2001 From: jeff at bioinformatics.org (J.W. Bizzaro) Date: Fri Feb 10 19:39:17 2006 Subject: [Pipet Users] JXTA References: <3AE7B17F.30567A85@bioinformatics.org> Message-ID: <3AE7B822.4A5C7262@bioinformatics.org> Check out the documentation on the JXTA shell: http://a1376.g.akamai.net/f/1376/3565/1d/akamai.collab.net/jxta/JXTA-Shell-Overview.pdf It's very much like what we planned Piper's text-based UI (Peep) to be. Now all they need is a "connect-the-dots" GUI, right? ;-) We'll have to put this on our "very much like Piper" list. But, hey, look at the bright side: We independently came up with the same idea that Bill Joy had. The field is becoming filled with players! Cheers. Jeff -- J.W. Bizzaro jeff@bioinformatics.org Director, Bioinformatics.org http://bioinformatics.org/~jeff "As we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and this we should do freely and generously." -- Benjamin Franklin --